Hi! I’m that mom. You may have noticed me dragging my child out of the toy section at Target the other day. Or away from the train tables at Barnes and Noble. Or out of and away from the pool. You probably saw me gritting my teeth and talking under my breath making threats and/or bribes. You maybe have even seen an unsuccessful attempt at a time out.
And then (maybe to your horror/maybe to your relief) you saw me spank my son.
You may not have seen that though, because if/when I resort to spanking – I try not to do it in public. I hate to spank him, I really do. I mean – I don’t ever enjoy punishing him in any way really. But, in my head – spanking seems so barbaric. So last resort. Like I’ve completely failed at everything else that I know should work.
And I really have tried it all. I gave the warnings that we were leaving or that he needs to share. I got down on his level and talked calmly and reasonably. I’ve tried counting, singing, bribing. (I am in no way above bribing to avoid a meltdown, not during one of course.) I’ve done a million unsuccessful time outs. But all of those things only work about half the time.
The other half – I’m the 9 month pregnant mom you’ve seen literally dragging her 3 yr old screaming son out of the store. I’m sure every mom feels like their child is the worst – but I would like to challenge them. Mine is the one who goes completely 100% limp. Refuses to walk or stand. And then starts screaming. At the highest pitch you’ve ever heard. For literally as loud and as long as his little lungs will let him. Repeatedly. I wish I was exaggerating even a little bit.
I’ve tried walking away, but he really doesn’t care. He will stand up and run away in the opposite direction.
So, when you saw me literally drag him from the bookstore, through the mall, across the parking lot and to the car – I had seriously had it. By the time I opened the door to get him in the car I was pissed. So when he refused to let me put him in the car-seat and was kicking and screaming to get out – I spanked him. Hard. 3 times.
And you know what? It worked. He stopped kicking me and screaming and finally let me buckle him.
But I left guilty, both of us sad and upset. And I regretted taking him to have fun in the first place.
I never give in to the screaming or tantrums. He is just so stubborn that it doesn’t seem to matter. There’s always another meltdown where I resort to spanking.
I’ve heard the saying that if you question if you are a good mom – you probably are. We are all just doing the best we can and hoping to raise good children into good adults.
But as good moms — we are also always trying to learn and do better. I hate resorting to spanking, but I just don’t know what else to try. If you have any other suggestions, I am always willing to listen and learn and try something new.
I am also really looking forward to the Project Mom’s Breakouts Session on Creative Discipline for Every Child and Every Age. Maybe I’ll see you there? I’ll be the one taking detailed notes!!
Project Mom is Sept 27-28 and you can get your 25% off tickets by using the code DMB.
I really feel like mine and yours are just the male/female versions of each other. Except the few attempts of spanking mine led to her extreme laughter. She honestly thinks it is hilarious to be spanked. So with that said, I will be sitting right next to you in that session because I really have no idea what to do either!
My DD sounds the same. She’s extremely good most of the time but her tantrums are just as extreme on the other end of the scale. She’ll be 4 in December and next month will be 1 year since these tantrums started. We completely skipped terrible twos so I feel like this is her paying me back for thinking I was going to get out of her first few years with my sanity intact.
Anyway, I’ve never spanked her, and I’d like to say it’s because I have it all figured out and but it’s just not so. The reason I never wanted to spank is b/c every time I’ve seen a kid get spanked, it always seems like it’s out of anger. Like the parent has just had it and is taking it out on the child. < That's the reason that I didn't want to spank, but she's tempted me and I've come close. I just can't and here's why. The reason that I don't spank is b/c my little has seen other kids get spanked, and she's afraid of their parents. I don't mean she respects them or listens to them any better than other adults. She legit doesn't want to be around them and asks why they "hurt" their kids. We did NOT (as far as we're aware) put that thought into her head. We had never discussed spanking with her prior to her asking us about it, but we had talked about hitting and hurting people, and she's the one who associates the two.
…So. As much as I don't want to spank her out of anger, even more than that, I don't want to do something that she considers the same as violence. With that said, I really, really struggle with discipline when we get to a point where things have gone too far. It doesn't happen often, but when it does, I always feel helpless and it's always a struggle to figure out what to do. She's only once fought me putting her in the car seat when we were leaving due to a tantrum, and I'm ashamed to say that I shamed her. DH's boss was walking to his car and I pointed him out to her and told her how embarrassed she should be and I bet his kids didn't behave that way. I think I felt worse about it than if I had spanked her. But it worked. She stopped her fit, buried her face in my chest and cried.
Anyway, out of all of the methods we've tried and all of the tricks we've pulled out of our hats, time outs in her room are the only thing that seem to be effective at ending the worst fits ever. We just let her scream and once screaming turns into crying, we go in, hug, kiss, tell her we love her, and talk about what happened. But when we're out in public and it happens, we're kind of SOL. About 80% of the time, leaving ends the tantrum. The rest of the time, she just spazzes out the whole ride home.
One of my biggest fears is that he associates spanking with violence. Or that it just encourages him to hit. So far, that has not been the case – but I think that is because we only spank when nothing else works or when his tantrum is completely out of control.
Thanks for sharing though — it seems like us moms will question any kind disciple — even if you choose not to spank at all!
I have a challenging 2 year old so I certainly have no idea what I am in for at age 3 or 4, but I have a question. Have you tried explaining what you are going to do ( say in a public place explain you need to visit 2 stores for certain items and you need his help with shopping) before you get there? And have you ever explained the behavior you expect from your child as well explain what the consequences are when he/she does not meet the expectations (i.e hold mommy’s hand on the sidewalk and to “turn your ears on and listen to Mommy/do as Mommy asks or else we wont be able to play in the playground or get a frozen treat etc…)?
We’ve done this with our two year old before she could talk ( and now talk “back” and say “no”). We also have told her – say before leaving a park- to pick one more thing she wants to do before we leave. She picks – say the slide – and we set the number of times we will play on that equipment ( i.e. slide 2 more times). Then we say where we are going next ( i.e. home to fix dinner). And as we leave I always leave a :job” for her to do to help me pack our bag for leaving.
Works well as she does not usually scream or cry( unless we are extremely tired or hungrier than I expected she would be).
These are cues I picked up from reading about parenting an autistic child. And to be honest, it occurred to me every child would benefit from “knowing” what was about to happen and (for the non-autistic perhaps) what was expected of them.
One other thing I do- I DO NOT take her shopping for longer than 30-45 minutes and I don’t shop any big box store (expect Babies R Us specifically for special diapers). EVERYTHING to run my house is ordered through the internet. Our groceries come from one store mainly that is small and I can let her RUN freely with a cart just her size ( we are still in Dallas yes). Am not sure when a child has the attention span to handle “shopping” past an hour, but shopping the way we need to shop to run our houses can be tough on our pre and pre-preschool aged children. I’d rather spend that time at the park or making fun messes.
That being said, totally get you with the spanking. I hate to resort to it as well. Would love to hear how others are maybe handling getting your child in a diaper and dressed when all they want is for you to chase them around the house.
Hopefully the chasing to get them dressed is just a short phase – it was for us. No fun, but they usually grow out of that one quickly! 🙂
As for explaining the time frame for leaving or what we are doing next – I am totally with you! I’ve seen it work and definitely give warnings and explain our plan. It has been mostly unsuccessful so far, but I do believe it will work if we keep it up. I think part of our problem has to do with his speech delay. He is catching up, but I don’t think his comprehension is there yet.
As for taking him shopping – I think your plan of not going longer than 45 mins is a good goal – but sometimes not doable. He’s usually pretty good at the store, but we’ve always taken him with us shopping. He has tasks, and distractions and is allowed to snack on the food we’re about to buy. I want him to learn that sometimes you have to go with me shopping – too bad if you don’t like it and it’s not your favorite – it has to be done.
We’ll see what I say with 2 kiddos though. 🙂
This learning curve is so tough!
I’d like to relate my Mom’s response to a tantrum I threw when I was about 3 or 4. It was probably about 1939 or 40 and took place in Northern Iowa on a very cold day. Mom dressed me in a snow suit and took me down to the store where my Dad worked. We went in and walked around for a short time and came to a counter where I found something I took a fancy to and let her know I wanted it. We didn’t have much money and she said no. After several exchanges, she finally became quite vexed and I reacted with a lie down, kick and scream tantrum being a real brat. She warned me to stop but I knew I’d never get what I wanted if I quit so I kicked it up a notch. She decided it was time to put a stop to the tirade and began to peel me out of my snowsuit. And my pants and shorts as well. Unfortunately, this was all taking place next to a display of flyback paddles and she reached over, got one and proceeded to apply it with a great deal of enthusiasm to my bare bottom till I was bright red and thoroughly regretting my action. She continued the spanking until she was convinced I’d learned my lesson (I truly did) when she decided to put the paddle back on the counter and readjust my clothing till I looked like a little Michelon man again. That was the last tantrum I EVER threw and stands as an example that the best attitude adjustment is a bright red bottom.
Jean, I see you posted twice. I am studying to be a teacher, but college is expensive, so I am working to raise cash. Anyhow, I have to figure out how children respond, and how to provide “discipline” in the modern way, (without the traditional school paddle). My own time in school was not so long ago to a lady of your years, but things have changed so much! The school where I got paddled myself no longer allows paddling.
I can’t imagine a woman using a paddleball on her child like that, in a store, without even buying it afterwards!!! I would think the store manager would suggest that she buy the paddle. Or he could even GIVE it to her, for that matter. Since the paddle was already “used,” it might have been damaged from the point of view of the next customer who might buy it later.
I know it was hard to find money for “extra” things, but is this really an extravagant purchase? She could easily explain to your father that it was necessary for her to spend the extra money. Maybe she could have kept it hidden until the holidays, or until your birthday, and then give it to you as a special “gift.” She would have to shop for ONE FEWER gifts!!!
P.S. The store where your Dad worked? Now I am wondering if your Dad was the manager, or if he saw what happened. That certainly does complicate things, doesn’t it? Those who OWN stores sometimes have to explain to others that they also have to pay for things. They might get it “wholesale,” but they still have to pay for it!!!
Amanda…I congratulate you for blogging about not only a hot topic but a secretive one as well. I’m glad I’m not alone. I spank my children, and yes I hate it too, but I don’t do it out of anger only for their discipline. Children need to learn and we are their teachers first and not their friends. I have a child just like yours and spanking was an absolute last resort after everything else failed. But when we started implementing it we started noticing some changes. That being said you also have a 3 year old and 3 was the absolute toughest age…way worse than 2. Press on Mama, you will make it through this stage and he will mature. Continue with what you are doing because you are the best mama for him.
Thank you so much Shannon! It’s such a good point to not spank out of anger. The other day Miles threw the Kindle when I told him he wasn’t allowed to play on it anymore. My gut instinct was to spank him, so I knew better. It was anger that made me want to spank him – so he got a time out. But when he’s kicking me during a temper tantrum spanking him is the only way to calm him down. It’s a fine line – but I definitely have to control my temper also.
Hi Amanda I’m 10 months pregnant and my son Michael who is 4 is pushing my buttons big time. The tantrums not listening and talking back has me at my wits end. Did it get better for you and did spanking work for you.
Trust me, I am not above spanking but one thing that I’ve found that seems to really work with my kids is silence. So often the kids get upset and then we get upset trying to calm them down and then parents end up spanking out of frustration.
If its an issue of hungry or tired, then that need is going to override any discipline you may think you’re teaching at the moment. Next time you’re out be sure to pack a snack or schedule around naptime. If it’s a tantrum of behavior or impulse control, then I’d do the following…
I feel like alternate personality mom when I have to do this but when a tantrum erupts, I say calmly, “Is this an acceptable way to behave in the store (restaurant, friends house, etc)? If they continue, I’ll calmly say, “if you continue we will have to go.” If there is still no progress, I will carry my child out of the store and into the car. No walking on their own. If they want to act like a baby, they will get treated like a baby. (Note: this really stinks for siblings because everyone has to leave if I’m out by myself with the kids but after a few episodes of this, the older ones will start to do whatever they can to help Mommy. Hopefully Daddy will be with you the first time you try this so he can finish the shopping and hopefully keep any sibs so you can talk to the child without distraction.)
The trick is to STAY CALM. I won’t talk to my child having the tantrum. I’ll even make a note to speak nicely to the other child that IS behaving to buckle their seat, let them sit in the front seat, etc but give the tantrum child the cold shoulder. We will drive home or just sit in the car to give the child a chance to calm down and think in silence about their behavior. Depending on the length of the tantrum, just wait it out with no talking. If your child is particularly strong willed, it may take a while for the child to calm down but they have to reach that breaking point where they realize that their tantrum is not going to get them anywhere. Once they calm down, ask them “was that appropriate behavior for the store?” If they are still under 3, once they calm down you can ask them (in a calm quiet voice) if they are “ready to go back into the store.” If they are older, I ask “was that appropriate behavior for the store?” “Do we yell (run, touch, whatever) in the store?” Sometimes kids don’t realize what they’re doing when they’re doing it so just to bring the specific behaviors to their attention can help them “connect the dots.” Once they are calm and are agreeable to behave, be sure to give them hugs and kisses and go back to happy mommy. Above all, do not yell, hit or threaten. You are going for a noticeably quiet demeanor.
If they are able to carry on a conversation of what they did, they are often ok to go back into the store to try to finish the shopping trip. If not, go home and before getting out of the car on the next trip, ask them again, ” Do we remember how to behave in the store?” “Are we going to have to have to have another talk?” Often the threat of having another boring talk is enough to keep them in line.
Basically kids can get so used to getting yelled at that sometimes just being ignored (in a controlled situation like a car) can be more unnerving. Before my kids were 3 sometimes I’d do a time out I the store on a bench and just hold them on my lap (kicking and screaming ) for the 3 minutes (not talking to them) to get them to calm down and get control of themselves and then once they were calm we’d have the short talk. Try as hard as you can to NOT talk to them. Sometimes I feel like we scold our kids out loud so OTHER people will know we are disciplining our children. Ignore that response. Kids having tantrums are already overstimulated and do not need additional verbal garbage being thrown at them. Give them the quiet they need to compose themselves and then begin the conversation with both parties being calm.
Some kids know that if they can withstand the barrage of yelling they can get what they want (leave the store, go on to the next destination, whatever.) Try to talk to your child and if they truly do not like to go to the grocery or target– don’t take them! Schedule your trips to the grocery for the weekend when they can stay home with Daddy while you run out without them. Work out a play date with a friend where you watch each others’ kids while the other runs errands. I shop at a Kroger that has a childcare area and my kids would rather go there than stay with me. Give your kids the ability to verbalized whether they want to shop or not but as they get older you can balance their NOT with an incentive to go to the playground or ice cream afterwards. Kids will figure it out eventually. On the plus side, if you can be consistent with YOUR behavior, their tantrums should decrease as they see that tantrums are not paying off.
Hope this helps!
You have so much more self control than me, I like the idea of silence – but I’m not sure if I could implement it. My mouth is just too big. 🙂
But I have to say – I do not agree with leaving the store because of a temper tantrum. I feel like that’s just teaching them if they throw a fit we get to leave. Unfortunately, I’d much rather let everyone in the store suffer (mostly me) by finishing shopping and getting my stuff done. As quickly as possible of course.
The other day Miles screamed through the entire check out at Target. I got some dirty looks, but mostly sympathy and understanding. I’m 9 months pregnant, so I’m not about to leave a cart full of food to have to come back later.
I’m also not able to carry him out any more. I have to drag him.
Thankfully he’s good and reasonable 90% of the time. It’s just those few temper tantrums that are hard to handle.
And I’m not sure how it will be with more than 1, so I may just end up using your suggestions later on. So thanks for commenting!!
My son has recently started throwing tantrums (and I’m pregnant again) so I had a sit down with a mom of four who is now pregnant and has well behaved children. She gave me a couple of suggestions that are working pretty well. First of all – tantrums – she has always picked up her kids and held them like a hug while restraining their arms and legs until they give up. You can do this at home on the couch or carrying them through a store cuz it looks like you’re just hugging them. She also suggests learning what makes your kid tick. One of her kids is really social so the best punishment for them is to isolate them from the family for punishment. Another wants to be in control (throwing tantrums in public) so the goal is to avoid the tantrum by giving them the illusion of control. About 10 minutes before she wants to leave somewhere, she will ask her son, “do you want to leave now or in ten minutes?” He will always say, “ten minutes”. But when ten minutes is up she will go to him and say, “you wanted to leave in ten minutes and now it’s been ten minutes so let’s go.” And he never freaks out cause he thinks he chose it. She gave me a lot of other examples but my son is starting to respond to those things. He’s throwing less tantrums when I give him choices (within limits) and he used to laugh if I would spank him on his diaper but if I make him get in his pack and play away from the family until he calms down or does what he’s supposed to he obeys much better. Thank goodness for veteran moms!
I wouldn’t recommend spanking a child through a diaper – it’s completely pointless. It doesn’t hurt, even if you use a belt. I’ve always spanked my kids naked, and it’s very effective. I take them to a private place and while I undress them we talk about what they did wrong. You can use much less force and it will sting enough. We don’t spank very often, and never after 8-9 or so.
I remember a sound spanking I got in 1939 or 40 when I was about 3or 4. It was in the middle of the depression and we had very little money. Mom had taken me to a dime store for some shopping and I found something that I thought was very desirable. Mom said no and I decided a tantrum might be the way to get it. It was winter and I had a snow suit on but it didn’t take her long to peel that off. Right behind her was one of the paddle ball displays and so she got one and proceeded to bare my bottom and then applied that paddle right in the aisle. Long and hard!! I was soon scarlet and howling like a banshee with a blistered bottom. She put the paddle back on the display, rearranged my snow suit and we marched out through the customers that had collected to see a naughty child getting a good comeupance. I never threw another tantrum, believe me.
So a couple of things – my son is stubborn and focused – misdirection doesn’t work and at two years old he is the size of a tall 35 pound three year old. He now has a six month old baby sister which increased misbehavior and spanking makes him laugh. Given that he is nearly as physically strong as I am I needed help fast!
So I took advice from my cousin who has foster kids and explored some of the methods at the link below. So far it has all worked. We now only have a tantrum when he is extremely past his nap or bedtime or he’s hungry. Other tantrums have ceased.
I would suggest you read several articles and listen to her podcast clips because she gives great suggestions on communicating with toddlers and some of the titles I judged at first, when I read the articles and listened to podcasts they actually helped us. Almost immediately.
http://www.janetlansbury.com/